Sander It's processed on exactly the same setup as where bunq's entire infrastructure runs on. They wrote all code themselves, store all data in their own databases etc. It's literally used to give you a nice graph.
Hey that's what Facebook does as well, processing data on their own servers - all to give you a couple of nice services tailored to your personal preferences and interests. Doesn't mean you have to like it that they do it. ;)
Ok I'll probably have to disclaimer this one: no I'm not comparing bunq to Facebook.
I just want to show that this point is moot. :P
I'll repeat: I know bunq has the data. Of course they do, they couldn't be a bank without it. What I have a potential (haven't fully made up my mind yet) problem with is that they're processing this data for a completely different purpose than what is necessary to provide the banking product. They went from storing the data to analysing it, profiling it to categories and store this analysis seperately plus making it available through the API. This is a very important distinction. The data isn't processed for banking, it's now processed in to a new datasubset with a different purpose. And that's making me feel rather uncomfortable and not very safe. I don't expect a lot of people to understand that, especially from younger generations; going rather hardcore on privacy is frowned upon these days. Yet all the same, even if you don't agree - please respect the fact that some people are really quite careful and picky with their data. :)
Also, just to be sure that people understand this: if it would be fully transparent exactly how the data is gathered and processed and properly clarified exactly what is done with the data (the PP is too vague on this imho): maybe I wouldn't even have a problem with it... I'm asking because it's unclear and thus I can't determine exactly what's going on with my data. That makes me uncomfortable and thus why I ask. Maybe I worry about nothing, who knows. Can't know without a detailed response and I haven't drawn any conclusions yet. :) Simply a worried client, nothing more.
Not to profile your purchases. Actually this is better for your privacy. Now you don't have to turn to another application to get your stuff analyzed. It's not like bunq employees are looking at the graphs of individuals. Heck, I bet they even can't do that. From back when I worked there I know that any analysis on feature usage (not profiling!) is done with great care. People simply cannot get access to data without a real need and only to the exact data that is needed for their purpose.. And there are some people watching these data requests very very closely.
It is profiling my purchases, lol. And how is it better for my privacy? It may be better privacy for the people who use such third-party apps, but I don't use such an app. :P
I'm sure not a lot of people at bunq have access to it, but that's irrelevant.
Honestly.. This is made much much bigger than it is. It now sounds almost like there is a huge privacy breach. Yes, sure, a toggle would be nice. But it's not like bunq is streaming all your transactions straight to Facebook.. 🤷♂️
I'm not making anything bigger than it is and this twisting of words is with all due respect a wee bit tiresome. ;) I didn't say there was a privacy breach. I said it feels like a privacy invasion to me. And there's a world of difference between databreach and invasion from a party that already has a data subset.
I'm simply asking a couple of rather simple questions and apparently this warrants defensive and even some mocking responses rather than a to the point answer to the questions. (from bunq itself. I mean, I appreciate the work that you do and you and John helped me out really weel a while ago, but as you always say yourself: you're not an employee and I shouldn't take anything you say as being official information. :)). I'm not exactly banking at bunq because I like it here so much. There a couple of awesome features that I really enjoy and like that they're available here (and for some: nowhere else), but I'm also rather frustrated with the very poor facilities for couples, bunq is not very transparent, often not very customer friendly in some areas, you can't trust answers from support being accurate, and to top it off Together can be a hostile and is an extremely aggressively moderated place and it feels like you have to be extremely careful with what you say and ask here. (See for example the topics about business accounts, heh.) Heck, I already am afraid that i'll get angry berations, get banned from Together or might even get my account closed simply for posting this... The sole reason I still put up with a lot of this nonsense is the alleged privacy protection that bunq offers, because I value my privacy very dearly and that kind of rules 90% of all the banks out. Bunq's privacy policy isn't exactly deserving awards either as it's way quite open to different interpretations, but it was one of the better policies out there all things considered.
So consider for a moment: I like bunq because of the strong stance on privacy. And this point is so important to me that I'm even willing to ignore and tolerate a couple of the (imho) major flaws and problems bunq has, including the feeling of having to be fearful to say anything here (and you should never have to be afraid to have honest, open and reasonable discourse with any company you do business with...) and getting quite screwed over with the required costs for a single CJ-account. Let that fact sink in for a moment, and then please answer me this: with this knowledge, my point of view, what is most important to me and thus and my personal reason why I am banking with bunq: can you understand then that if bunq suddenly starts analysing and categorising my payments, and thus processing my personal and private transactional data for a completely different goal than delivering the banking product without proper explanation and clarifications in the PP - that doesn't feel very comfortable to someone whose only here because of the "enhanced" privacy? Especially as it was never asked if you want bunq to process this data (opt-in) for you this way? The very last thing you are banking at bunq for appears to have potentially been stripped away as bunq is suddenly doing stuff to my data that I never asked for and I have no idea how they process it, store it, et cetera and to make matters worse: no way to stop them from doing it either. And then also consider, I didn't even start with accusing bunq of anything. I assumed they meant well and I just asked how it was done and if it could please be stopped some way if it was done externally. It wasn't until people started posting rather off-topic, irrelevant responses based on misunderstandings of what my potential problem is that it started escalating further.
Apparently, asking for a clarification and wondering why bunq is doing this because you (I) value your (my) privacy is a very strange thing to do... Which I find strange as bunq is, allegedly, a bank of the free that respects your privacy in each and every way - no? Yet, I feel that a sudden unasked for processing of personal data that I only store with bunq for doing transactions isn't exactly respecting my privacy. Actually it feels rather creepy, like a complete stranger is suddenly organising my e-mails in to categories without asking. You may not be able to understand that or why I feel that way, but surely bunq should understand if they're advocates for privacy and understand people's need for privacy - as they (or actually Ali, not even sure if it was said by anyone else) have always said they did. Then surely, they must be able to relate to why I'm asking these questions and why I really hope to get a clearer explanation of the exact functioning, how it is stored, if it can be clarified what bunq does with this processed data (just show it to me, or use it for their own analytics as well? And if the latter: how, and how anonymous? etc.) and for the love of god: a switch to immediately stop this type of processing and remove the data that was generated as a result of this processing. :)
I'm sure bunq has the best intentions and I'm sure they treat the data carefully. I didn't even suggest they don't. But that wasn't my question, point nor problem. But it appears this is difficult to understand. I wasn't even accusing bunq of anything, I'm just asking a few questions to which I still haven't received a clear answer. Rather than getting a proper and detailed explanation, I have to deal with explaining to multiple people who don't seem to entirely understand the concept of privacy nor the difference between storing vs processing multiple times their comments are not what I'm looking for. I wasn't looking for personal opinions on privacy or this feature (I know this is a public forum, but it'd be nice if the question was actually answered rather than getting semi-ontopic replies or people challenging whether or not you should really care about your privacy for this feature lol), I was hoping to get a clear answer and hoping that bunq could take my discomfort away by clarifying all of this. Yet, that unfortunately hasn't happened.
One more thing to add: I know bunq has to process transactions for screening against fraude, enhance security, etc.
I know. They're a bank. I agreed with that. However, that was internal data and not something that was accessible through an API nor, to the best of my knowledge, shared in any way with third-party vendors other than perhaps the tax office(s). This is a brand spanking new subset of data.
Anyway, I'm sure this topic will probably be closed soon as well. Way too much critique, can't possibly stay up for long.
I see that Ali, of all people, has upvoted a couple of the rather more mocking and dismissive replies, so I assume this means he (and thus bunq) do(es) not agree with my feeling that this requires more information/clarification and have no intention to respond nor clarify any of this. Strange, as I had thought Ali would likely understand the need to feel safe storing your transactional data with bunq and thus would be the first willing to clarify stuff if a client does not feel entirely comfortable/safe here anymore as a result of insufficient information about a new function and no opt-out being readily available to stop the processing for this purpose. (Keep in mind, i'll repeat: if it is properly clarified maybe I don't have a problem with it at all.) After all privacy is what he advocated a lot. Maybe he's falling in to a common trap: Ali has all the knowledge of how it works, and he knows he/bunq have no bad intentions - and because of that knowledge can't properly see why clients who are not familiar (due to lack of info) are alarmed with this creation of a new dataset based on processing private data. In which case it's utterly pointless to even try and get the answer, it's unlikely I'll get one then. :(
I don't know what I was thinking asking it here anyway. I'll just send an email to the DPO and if the answer is satisfactory: call it a day and "happily" continue banking here. And if not satisfactory then I'll just have to reconsider if I want to keep this product and/or ask the AP whether or not this is even allowed in this manner. :P Just to get one thing straight: I haven't drawn any conclusions about this yet. I am just worried due to the lack of clarity and lack of explanation and was hoping to get an answer so I can draw my conclusions and make up my mind then.
TL;DR:
Thanks either way for your replies, I do appreciate it.
I'm glad bunq offers this feature, but I don't think it's privacy friendly of them to start processing data for this purpose without asking for consent and not offering an opt-out to halt the processing this way. Nevermind about all this, just forget it - I'll try to get my answers elsewhere. Enjoy your day y'all! :)