Suggestions for adding security. Eg forced funds transfer or compromised account

Samzoiets

PaulP 🇳🇱🇬🇧🇩🇪🇪🇺 But how would you reach out to those 'trusted bunqers'? And would that be easier than contacting bunq via email or via the app on another phone?

The effort of maintaining the infra structures you are supposing is much higher then asking someone to use their phone for a few minutes to get things sorted.

Paul-Grey-Unicorn-386063522

Sam 🇳🇱🇬🇧 I would call the “trusted bunqers” using any phone available. I can call them 24 hours a day, so the important factor speed is covered. Bunq support is not available 24 hours a day. Asking someone else to use their phone is in my opinion the mickymouse solution. I do not consider that professional. I even wonder if there are no requirements from the DNB (oversight body in the Netherlands) for these type of security procedures. Will give them a call next week to get better informed and make some further suggestions.

Samzoiets

But when your phone is stolen or lost, how would you contact them, without using someone else's phone?

Or do you still rely on public phones to be around? You're more likely to find a smart phone than a phone booth...

Paul-Grey-Unicorn-386063522

Sam 🇳🇱🇬🇧 Probably I was not completely clear. Speed is important, so a pre-organised process that can be triggered via a phone call is something different than installing the app etc. on the phone of a stranger. Finding/borrowing a phone to make a phone call is easier than finding a person allowing me to install a banking app on his/her phone to do “things”. I personally would be very reluctant to allow that on my phone. Hotels, restaurants, bars, typically have phones.

Wasdroger

Just send a mail from your pc :)

BBiker

Peter +1

Mail...maybe with id Card attached.

Robert-Silver-Turtle-4265395482

I’m sure most of you here have an iPad or a tablet. Install bunq on those. I’m also pretty sure some of you have a second smartphone. Have bunq installed on all your devices. Problem solved.

johannes

Sam 🇳🇱🇬🇧 1. ...
2. I just wanted to say that there are banks providing a hotline without the need of extra staff.

Dennis

Bottom line is, that if you loose both your phone and your cards, you are more screwed as a bunq customer than with any other bank. bunq ic cutting costs, by removing easy options to block access to your account and cards should those be compromised.

Yes, it is true, you can just get a hold of another smartphone, download bunq, log in, and then block your cards yourself. However, imagine that you are travelling in a different country, maybe you don't have easy access to another smartphone, and maybe an internet connection is different to come by.

Even in the most optimal situations, blocking your cards is still more of a hassle with bunq than with any other bank.

Sander

It is not only about the costs. Identification on the phone or other channels is more difficult to accomplish. At ABN I would get questions like "what insurance company do you use?","what phone provider do you use", etc.. (So they are actually peeking at my transactions!). These things are known by several people, so it does not give a 100% guarantee it's me calling them. I'm glad bunq only allows me to do this through the app, which is a very secure channel with multiple layers of authentication. 🙂 As further precautions I never have to much money on my accounts, low limits, and auto logout set to a short time. Works fine for me. 🙂

johannes

Sander But that's the thing: They also block your card if you write them an email, even if it's not sent from yours! Because they must do that. It's not just the app and nothing else.

And I don't want a hotline for anything else, just for blocking a card.. an automatic hotline asking you for your linked number or card number + your birth date should be enough.... And it's just blocking your card, no other access.

Dennis

I'd rather have the risk that my cards could be blocked because someone decides to harass me, rather than be left with potentially no way to do so myself, should the need arise.

Also, keeping low funds in my accounts, to lower the risk in case I lose my cards, is not really an option, since bunq is my only bank. Of course I don't keep unreasonable large amounts on the accounts I use for my day to day stuff, and which my cards are connected to, but often well over the daily card limits.

Ideally bunq would have a phone number you could use in case of abuse or theft. This is the single most Important thing that bunq is missing in my opinion. I'm fine with all other contact going through the app.

And if bunq insists of cutting off all verbal communication with their customers, then I would prefer a web page that would allow me to block my cards by identifying myself and answering a few security questions. Yes, this could be abused - but I'd prefer this risk over the risk of being in a situation where I can't block my cards at all.

johannes

Dennis The hotline could be an automatic one, with no staff. Just call the Revolut or Curve hotline, they are the same. Just used for blocking cards with no extra staff.

Sander

Johannes 🇦🇺 But that's the thing: They also block your card if you write them an email, even if it's not sent from yours! Because they must do that. It's not just the app and nothing else.

I've never heard of that happening, and honestly, when that actually is how they work now, I think it's really really bad. There should be some minimal checks to see whether it's actually that user.

Johannes 🇦🇺 your birth date should be enough.

Basically anyone I know knows that info as well, it doesn't prove anything about my identity.

Dennis Of course I don't keep unreasonable large amounts on the accounts I use for my day to day stuff

This is exactly what I mean. I keep most of my money outside bunq, but my spending money is in there, divided over several IBANs, to change which IBAN to spend from you need to login into the app, which is sufficiently difficult even when having access to my phone. My cards are not linked to accounts with buffers or anything. So that way my loss would be negligible.

A hotline might be useful, maybe for deactivation only (not sure whether you are referring to actual blocking or deactivation now, I suppose the latter). but personally I wouldn't want someone to be able to deactivate my cards in such an easy way. But I guess we simply disagree on that part, so I will not continue discussing about that. 😜🙂

LH-Black-Wolf

Sam 🇳🇱🇬🇧 No it is not a major security risk when programmed properly, and not any more risk than for example a phone running sideloaded apps or using an old Android version with vulnerabilities to do your Bunq business. If anything, a web portal can sometimes be way more secure than an app; both have pros and cons. Please don’t spread fear-mongering FUD about online banking safety. :)

Your replies are offering work-arounds and call it “common sense”, whilst in reality the common sense actually is there must be an easy way to block your cards if you get robbed. ;) “Separate them”, good luck with that if someone tells you to give your wallet and phone whilst waiving a knife or worse in front of your nose. Calling them out on common sense then that they should only really steal one of the two would likely make you end up with at least a broken nose if not worse and your wallet and phone still missing :P

I very much like the idea of a phone number that has an automated system. You could for example let it ask for a few things:
- accountnumber of main account
- day of birth
- social security number/TaxID/BSN
- Card expiration date
- A security code you can set in the app
If at least 3 of the 5 points match: block all cards.

Maybe there’s easier ways than the above info, but just to give an idea. This would only cost Bunq the one-time programming costs for a automated phone system and then it’s done.
But a web-portal would be nice as well. (In fact I’d like a complete online banking environment for Bunq.)

BigBoss

LvH I very much like the idea of a phone number that has an automated system. You could for example let it ask for a two things:

the last 6 digits of the card you can set in the app
A security code 8 digit you can set in the app

To temporarily block your cards and application.

This gives you time to contact bunq and reactivate your account with the hand scan or security phrase.

johannes

Sander Well, no need to have the same opinion.. bunq could give you an opt in / opt out option for this number :) if you are opt out your card can't get blocked with the number :)

Paul-Grey-Unicorn-386063522

I do think that my earlier mentioned idea with “trusted bunqers” and a shared secret or so also would work and fits within the philosophy of bunq. If I pre-assign max 4 trusted bunqers that can do the temporary blocking actions for me within a short timeframe, than after that I have time to get a new phone etc.

LH-Black-Wolf

PaulP 🇳🇱🇬🇧🇩🇪🇪🇺 That’s also a good idea! Not a shared secret perse, but a security code you set and then if you’re in trouble: you can call your trusted Bunq-er (can even be a free account), give them the code to enter in the app et voila!

That would perhaps be even better and more cost-effective than a phone number.

Paul-Grey-Unicorn-386063522

LvH Good idea. Just use a security code, no need for a shared secret indeed.