• Ideas Implemented

  • SuperGreen (1 per 100€)

I am fairly new bunq and therefore also Together, so please forgive me if I do something wrong here.

There have been lots of discussions over the last hours and days about the changes made by bunq. I contacted the support with my concerns and they suggested I should open an idea discussion. I thought about the changes that were made during the automatic transition from GreenCard to SuperGreen. And I thought about why these changes upset me.
After some time I realized that it was not the price increase of 9€, which of course does not make me smile, but oh well.
What upset me was that my math does not work out anymore. To clarify, let me explain why I chose to go Premium two weeks ago. When I heard about bunq and GreenCard, I did some calculations on whether it is worth to join Premium and GreenCard. I assumed it would cost me 1€ to plant a tree on my own (e.g. through donations). bunq would plant two trees per 100€ I spend on something for the cost of 99€ per year. So instead of purchasing GreenCard, I could just donate 100€ and plant 100 trees. If I chose GreenCard, I would have to spend 5000€ (50€ per tree x 100 trees) over the year. This is a fairly reasonable amount, even for me, as a student.

I just looked up the costs for planting a tree over at https://edenprojects.org/, their FAQ claims that the cost for planting a tree lies between 0,10€ and 0,36€. I learned that my calculations were too optimistic in the first place. In bunq's favor let's chose 0,50€ as the price for one tree. One has to spend 10.000€ to make the investment worth. For me this is probably already out of reach, but oh well again. With yesterdays changes these two trees get reduced to one. I understand that one can use all cards to account to that goal, but here in Germany basically all of the other cards are useless since either all of them are accepted, or none is. Therefore I only get to plant half as much trees as before, so I now have to spend 20.000€ a year, which is just absurd. To me SuperGreen is just not worth it. I want to have trees planted and was excited that a bank could support me in doing that. But it is way more effective to just give that money directly to the Eden Project. I am still happy to see that bunq tries to plant 50% more trees with this change and I think this change is being very welcomed by the dutch community (I think?), but for people like me this seems like its not worth it anymore.

So, what now?

What I Expect
This change came two weeks after I purchased both Premium and GreenCard. The claim was that the combination of both gets me two trees per 100€. This was changed yesterday, cutting the amount of trees in half. I am not a lawyer or even remotely familiar with these things, but this does not feel exactly legal. I mean, I don't get to decide that I pay only 4€ for premium now, do I?
It is fine to introduce SuperGreen. It is fine to upgade me to that plan, since I don't have to pay anything extra for a year. But still you cut your service in half.
Dumb analogy time: I order 4 apples from you and you give me 2 bananas. "2 bananas are worth the same as 4 apples." Well that may be, but I don't care for these bananas, I wanted apples.
Therefore I expect to get back the two trees per 100€, at least for that year I paid for them. I am not sure how people who actually use multiple cards should get trees then, maybe they are just lucky. Means more trees right?

What I Wish For
So after that year, I would like to see that you keep the two trees. If that is not possible, ok. I get that. Another idea would be that all expenses account into that planting tree goal. I would be fine with 1 tree per 100€, if really any transaction would count. Paying my rent? 6 trees. Hell yeah. I know there is a lot to think about, like having two bunq accounts and indefinitely sending money between these two. In the end this means more trees, but I also want you to stay in business. Again, just an idea.

Sorry for this long text, just wanted to let my thoughts out. I’d love to hear your feedback (and math corrections!).

Stay safe everyone.

Cheers,
Max

    Hey
    Why don't u use more cards?
    With bunq you have a very nice flow of money, If you create multiple accounts.
    And use a few cards with them.

    I created accounts for online banking, food, monthly income, savings, PayPal and fun money (money which I have weekly and can use for things I like).

    To not switch the account connected with the card, I use multiple cards.
    I have cards for online banking, PayPal, fun money and food.
    These are a mix of online and real cards with Apple Pay.
    If you have your own online payment bank account and card, nobody could use your card if there is no money on the account. Only if you want to use it, and send money there.

    And I think a lot of bunq Premium user have their own system, with multiple cards :)

    Just wanted to let you know the possibility of using more ;)
    Still understand your thoughts 👍

      @mangerlahn#156183 Ik zit met precies hetzelfde. Voor mij was het planten van 2 bomen per € 100,- de reden om een Bunq Green Card te nemen naast mijn Joint abonnement. Dit is weggenomen en dit wordt ook in mijn geval niet gecompenseerd met het meetellen van de andere kaart betalingen. Inmiddels zijn ongeveer 90% procent van mijn persoonlijke kaart uitgaven met de creditcard.

      Dus @bunq, graag de 2 bomen per € 100,- hanteren voor bestaande Green Card gebruikers voor de duur van het eerste contract van een jaar. Of plant bomen op basis van alle uitgaven, dus ook bankoverschrijvingen (huur / hypotheek) dan kom je met 1 boom per € 100,- ook goed uit. 👍🏻

        @Simon-Magenta-Zebra#156195 Sehr gut. Und schön wäre es natürlich auch, wenn man sich daran halten würde was man den wartenden Nutzern versprochen hat: im 1. VertragsJahr sind 2 Monate gratis, d. h. man hat im 1. Jahr 14 Monate.

          @Lui#156194 Thank you very much for these tips!. I am still new and try to get used to all of this.
          I also see that bunq probably chose the right thing in allowing this. But still, this only changes how I spend money, not the amount. And so less trees get planted :/

            Finde deinen Beitrag sehr sachlich und gut geschrieben. Würde ich inhaltlich genau so vertreten. 👍
            Ich verstehe ja, dass sich viele Leute aufregen - vor allem ehemalige Joint Mitglieder - aber eine sachliche Diskussion sollte trotzdem immer möglich sein. Bunq hat es ja inzwischen eingesehen, dass die Joint Mitgliedschaft komplett zu streichen wohl ein Fehler war. Nun können wir nur hoffen, dass eben das Modell des Bäume-Pflanzens ebenfalls nochmals überarbeitet/erweitert wird 🙃

              @mangerlahn#156203 bunq offers a lot so its kind of hard to see through all these features.

              But if you use other cards for everything like, one card for food, one for online shopping, another for fun expenses and the GreenCard for your house bill or what ever.

              You now, only plant trees with the green card. But 2 trees per 100€.
              But if you could plant trees with all your cards. You are not restricted in which card you use and how to create your own banking system.

              With the GreenCard 2 trees per 100€ option, I would plant less trees per Year than planting with every card. (with 1 tree per 100€)

              The GreenCard was a restricting factor for me, and I think also other people.

              I don't have the GreenCard because it was restricting me too much.
              Soon I will get the SuperGreen Subscription. But without the Metalcard. I just don't need it.
              And then I am not restricted with planting trees :)

                @Simon-Magenta-Zebra#156195 Genau meine Meinung, ich schließe mich zu. Bunq gib uns unsere Bäume wieder zurück!!!

                  @Lui#156206 I understand your use case and it’s perfectly valid. It is also the one that bunq tries to optimize for now. To do that, they sacrificed parts of their already paying GreenCard customers (willingly or not). I don’t want them to revert, as this is a good idea in and of itself. I rather want them to combine both use cases so that everyone is happy :)

                    @Lui#156206 Dann machst du was falsch und hast den Sinn der Green Card nicht verstanden als du sie bestellt hast. Du kannst alles mit der Green Card bezahlen. Du kannst sie jedem Konto zu ordnen oder das Geld danach umbuchen. Keiner pflanzt einen Baum mehr wenn es mit allen Karten funktioniert da niemand mehr Geld ausgibt als vorher. Wenn du die Green Card zu selten benutzt hast ist es deine schuld das du wenig Bäume gepflanzt hast und du hast sie einfach falsch benutzt. Selbst wenn man noch andere karten benutzt bezweifle ich das die Verteilung genau 50-50 ist und selbst wenn würdest du jetzt immer noch keinen Baum mehr Pflanzen sondern genau die selbe Anzahl wie vorher.

                      • LAce

                        • Post #11
                        • Edited

                        @Nadine-Violet-Falcon#156211 Ja ich kann mit der GreenCard alles bezahlen.

                        Aber ich will auch meine Online Karten benutzen. Ich will nicht das Risiko eingehen, dass irgendwer meine Kreditkarten Daten stiehlt und mein Geld benutzt. Deswegen eigenes Konto mit eigener Karte.
                        Für Apple/google Pay sind mehrere Karten auch praktisch. Ich hab Karten die für unterschiedliche Konten sind.
                        Die GreenCard als einzige Karte zu verwenden und immer den Account zu wechseln ist unsicher. Und mit mehr Karten hab ich halt ein einfaches Budget Management.

                        Ich denke jeder kann selbst entscheiden wie er/sie seine Karten nutzt. Und es hat mal wer einen Guide geschrieben, wieso dieses Multi Karten nutzen praktisch ist und wie das geht.

                        Ich denke die meisten bunq Benutzer hier, die länger als 1 Jahr da sind, nutzen mehrere Konten weil sie merken wie einfacher das wird.
                        Ich will dir auch nicht, sagen wie du deine Karten nutzen sollst. Ich wollte dem Ersteller dieses Posts nur mitteilen wie andere Nutzer und bunq es sieht.

                        Mich hat die GreenCard in der Auswahl meiner Karten einfach sehr beschränkt. Mehr kann ich nicht sagen.

                          @Lui#156218 Creditcard betalingen zijn erg veilig, zeker met een dynamische CVC code.

                          In Nederland kan ongeveer 90% van alle kaart betalingen met creditcard (dus met green card) worden gedaan, er vielen dus veel bomen te planten. Ik wil bunq best geloven dat er over de hele linie meer bomen worden geplant als alle kaarten meetellen, maar in veel gevallen zal dit ook niet het geval zijn.

                          Voor de mensen die heel bewust voor de green card hebben gekozen om 2 bomen per €100,- te planten is deze tussentijdse wijziging een bijzonder onaangename verrassing.

                            @Lui#156218 Ich benutze bunq schon lange :-) und ja auch ich benutze mehrere Karten allerdings eher für klein Beträge. Durch die Dual Pin ist die Green Card bei zwei Konten nutzbar. Ich bezahle aber fast ausschließlich alles mit Google Pay. Ich zahle einfach mit der Green Card und buche es dann um. Ich finde es ja auch gut das es jetzt mit allen Karten geht aber das die Leistung nun 50% weniger ist als das was man vertraglichen gekauft hat geht einfach noch!

                              @Nadine-Violet-Falcon#156225 Yeah :) du bist einfach nicht so faul wie ich. Das umbuchen ist für mich zum Beispiel zu viel Aufwand.
                              Dieses ganze am Handy sein, wird einfach viel.
                              Ich will einfach meinen Automatismus von meinem Bank Erlebnis und nebenbei in der Zukunft ein paar Bäume pflanzen. Wie gesagt ich hol mir das Super Green Abo erst noch. Bis jetzt halt nicht wegen der GreenCard xD

                              Aber Ich denke jeder hat da andere Prioritäten ob Bank Automatisierung oder Bäume pflanzen zuerst kommt, ist für jeden unterschiedlich.

                              Aber schön zu hören dass du früher alles mit der GreenCard gezahlt hast. Ich hät das nicht geschafft.
                              Und ja für dich und andere schaut das mit den 2 Bäumen jetzt natürlich anders aus.
                              Versteh ich voll.

                              Ich geh jetz schlafen. Schönen Abend noch :D

                                bunq changed the title to SuperGreen (1 per 100€).

                                  I was a big supporter of the fact that trees can be planted with all cards and so I am really happy with the latest update! Thanks bunq.

                                  Why?
                                  Because it is only now that I can take full advantage of my various accounts and cards again. Budgeting is finally automated and convenient again, without always having to intervene manually either before the green card payment or afterwards. The comfort is back, great.

                                  In addition, in Germany there is still the problem that my GreenCard is not accepted and that my Maestro card must be used instead (top up my parking card, top up my card for the canteen, my preferred clothing store ...). Now I can also plant trees with these payments, with Maestro, great.
                                  The problem with Maestro payments is much bigger in the Netherlands. So more trees will surely be planted for all users if all cards, especially Maestro, count.

                                  What about now that only 1 tree per 100 € is planted instead of 2 for premium users?
                                  Yes, I'm completely satisfied with that too! It is clearly understandable and comprehensible for anyone who thinks a little bit about why the reduction inevitably had to be that way. Bunq pays our trees out of the interchange fee that bunq receives for each of our card payments.
                                  The interchange fee for credit card payments is higher than that for debit cards. For the payment of € 100 with the GreenCard, a credit card, the calculation was possible for bunq, to cover the own costs, to make a small profit and to pay for 2 trees at Eden Projects. For the much lower income from € 100 of our payment with a debit card, especially Maestro, the calculation is no longer enough for 2 trees.
                                  And yes, bunq can and must also make a profit. Employees want to be paid fairly and of course bunq should survive economically as a company. So it is clear that if all cards, including Mastercard Debit and Maestro, count, then the calculation with 2 trees per € 100 is no longer correct and must be adjusted.

                                  Against this background, it is acceptable for me that I now only get 1 tree per 100 €, but that I enjoy an insane comfort in budgeting and no longer have to worry about not planting any trees when I am forced to use my Maestro Card.

                                    @Esther-Orange-Unicorn#156299 I absolutely agree with you. And since the amount of trees that I plant don't directly affect me in any way, I don't mind.
                                    I am also a German bunqer and I never had to use my maestro card yet, but that is due to a problem that I don't have: I always have an EC-Karte with me and there is always money on it, therefore I don't need to worry about that.

                                      @Esther-Orange-Unicorn#156299 I understand this and agree on why they had to change this in order to implement the new structure. The problem is that I did not pay for how this works now. I paid for getting two trees out of paying with my credit card. GreenCard and SuperGreen are two different things, I paid for the one and got the other. And the other is worse for me and some people, better for others. I don't care for the Maestro card, I never used it. I only pay using the credit card, therefore I generate more interchange fees.

                                      Not sure if that would work out for bunq, but how about counting debit and credit card payments differently? What if a credit card payment would just count twice as much? I've read that idea here on Together somewhere, its not mine. But would that be an option @bunq ?

                                      That way everybody would be happy I guess?

                                        @TimothyA#156319 For me bunq is my one and only, so there is no german girocard for me.
                                        I like your perspective. It is not everything about my own forest and my own trees and if the hole bunq supergreen community plants more trees all together now with all their card, it is great 🌳.

                                          @Esther-Orange-Unicorn#156323 Yes. And I am a huge fan of bunq, too. I only use bunq, for almost all my transactions. I don't even really use my credit card anymore, except that I now top up my account every month with that credit card...
                                          I also love my Green Card (Metal Card? What is it now)! I don't mind the personal price increase I now have: 9€ more per year. 🌈