bunq Together

Instant Payments EU/NL

Mark-Golden-Owl

Strange, bunq is not in the list of the Dutch IP adaptors, while all other major Dutch banks are (will be effective early next year). https://www.betaalvereniging.nl/betalingsverkeer/instant-payments/deelnemende-banken/

Common bunq, you can't be behind :)

WJanson

Mark That’s because the website of the Betaalvereniging Nederland only list the banks that are going to implement the Dutch version of instant payments.

bunq however has chosen to implement the European version which is going to have a larger coverage ⚡️

Michiell

Mark the european version https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/sites/default/files/participants_export/sepa_instant_credit_transfer/sepa_instant_credit_transfer.pdf?v=1533884620

Mark-Golden-Owl

Thanks both for the informatie. I understand why Bunq had chosen for the European version, but most Dutch banks will not implement it,because the Dutch version is superior in terms of speed and no transaction limit. If bunq is not going to implement the Dutch version, then Bunq is the only bank not supporting instant payments between Dutch banks (except ABN).

Michiell

Mark ABN will do both and Rabobank will join the European version.

Mat64

I think that if bunq joins the Dutch system we only will know it just before or directly after it goes live.

Ali

We will not join the Dutch system unless we are coerced to. The Dutch system in many ways is inferior to the European system. The only reason i can think of to implement a deviating standard is because some Dutch banks think/hope they can keep competition away...

joeri

Ali
"We will not join the Dutch system unless we are coerced to. The Dutch system in many ways is inferior to the European system. The only reason i can think of to implement a deviating standard is because some Dutch banks think/hope they can keep competition away..."

Is dit nog steeds het geval? De andere banken hebben de instant payment nu actief behalve uitgaande betaling bij de ING zijn nog niet instant wel ontvangen en onderling bij de anderen banken werkt het al

Wasdroger

Lees ik het verkeerd, of staan zowel bunq als ING NL al op de lijst van EBA? ABN zie ik er dan weer niet tussen staan..

JohnDo

The two systems will work together, so from a users perspective it will be one system. The only difference is that the EU 🇪🇺 version will have a limit of 15k (which will be evaluated this oktober)

Petervdv

Nee, de twee systemen ondersteunen elkaar niet. Dus in jouw voorbeeld zou de betaling niet instant gaan.

Gregory

Petervdv 🏳️‍🌈 https://www.betaalvereniging.nl/en/focus/instant-payments/
Instant Payments in The Netherlands are implemented according to this SEPA standard. Two additional features are implemented on top of this standard, specifically for the Dutch market:

The Instant Payment transaction will take no more than 5 seconds, where the European standard caters for 10 seconds
Any amount is possible for an Instant Payment within The Netherlands; for European (x-border transactions) a maximum amount limit of€ 15,000 per instant payment is applicable.

Petervdv

Gregory Goijaerts Ah, I believe that's new or I was just all wrong. Thanks for the info :).

Ali

As far as I've understood they don't have a connection, which means that unless the dutch banks also connect to the EU system they won't support ALL the other banks.

Tim

Ali

Hi Ali 👋

So just trying to understand, a bank that is supporting the EU version works with the EU and NL version (but just on the EU terms, 10 sec + 15k limit). But just supporting the NL version works only with other NL supporting banks?

Ali

you have banks that do EU only (bunq), EU and NL (abn) and NL (rabo, ing). Then a bunch that are either not doing anything or unknown to me (asn bank, volksbank, triodos, etc). This is afaik, I might be off.

banks who only support EU, will work with all others that do EU
NL all others that do NL
those who support NL and don't do EU will probably not work, or at least not at first.

Frankly I don't believe in the "advantages" of the NL system. For various reasons, most of which I can't share in public :).

JohnDo

Ali Thanks for the additional info. I asked Betaalvereniging Nederland a while ago if the two system can work together... They confirmed that they will be connected to each other (at some point).

I posted the full response here:
https://together.bunq.com/d/3588-instant-payments-with-dutch-eu-system/9

Still can't understand why Dutch banks want to have a different system. The differences between the two systems are extremely slim at least from a users perspective.

Tim

Alright, so it works as I thought it did. Unfortunately I must say. For the customer supporting both would be the most perfect scenario. I guess for the average person International payments don't occur that much either. Most important would be instant payments within The Netherlands, whether this is through the NL or EU system. Lets just hope there will be a happy connect one day after all. I do see something like an army of traditional banks trying to face off against a 'newcomer' on the market here though.

JanBrodda

You can also see this the other way round: Wouldn't it be also a disadvantage for ING, because they chose to refuse the European standards and build something on their own? 😉

SimonM

The spanish, italian, austrian and german banks are going for the EU IP system. In germany about 380 Sparkasse joined in July2018, DeutscheBank and Volksbank will follow by the end of the year.
But the german banks are trying to impede InstantPayments by high fees, Sparkasse wants between 0,20 and 3,00 EUR for one IP, DeutscheBank wants to get 0,60 EUR. One of my german banks is only able to receive Instant payments, the other is having a fee of 1,50EUR for sending each IP.
Guess where my money is? At bunq, where it moves fast! (international, just in time, when needed For Girocard payment and stuff)